Curse

daze · Feb 23, 2009, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

And I have been trying to tell you that warriors make the worst casters with only 2 pips of energy regen and 20e base energy but you keep recommending a caster warrior in your pvx discord build.

When a warrior is primarily using AP/YMLAD then 2 pips doesn't matter with the energy return from AP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Wong! A SINGLE melee monster blows up before it gets to you and that is only because of YMLAD cripple buying you time, would be more believable. If you have more melee monsters running towards you, you wont be able to blow them all up before they reach you. You keep forgeting discord is single targeting.

Whoopsy daisy.

It seems you failed to read the rest of his explanation. Dont worry, ill re-post it and bold the bit you failed to notice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Anyway you have explained to have no idea how to run Discord and I actually doubt you did. Kiting when you are AP Caller? every melee blows up before it gets to you and your restos have no problem to keep your party alive before every mob explodes what are you talking about?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

If that is so, then why are you always the one to back down whenever I challenge you for an in-game damage measurement at the master of damage? All you have ever done whenever I challenged you in the game is to simply find a lame excuse, and run away then stubbornly stick to your point in the forum.

Its cute that you still think Master of damage can give an accurate representation of a builds effectiveness in live combat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

That is because you dont understand how a melee character can synergize with a discord team.

And you dont understand that synergize is the wrong word to use. Using melee buffs effectively gimps your discord and makes it run at 70% effectiveness (to be generous) by taking time off of your massive spikes because time is wasted buffing melee and not spike spamming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

If your warrior wields a staff, then he is not wielding a shield and he is probably not in the frontline. And a staff is not going to help his mere 2 pips of energy regen (only half of a caster's) either.

Warriors without shields dont have to sit on the mid or backline FYI. Have you ever heard of a scythe warrior??? I dont know many scythe warriors who use shields. Now granted you probably wont be doing much aggro holding but your position on the field will hold a lot less significance. but if you are just spamming [save yourselves][assassins promise][you move like a dwarf] then it really doesnt matter where you stand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Tell your guild leader he might as well trade in his warrior-caster for a REAL caster with 4 pips of energy regen and at least +10 to his base energy pool. It is just sad to see a warrior killing slower than a regular caster because you dont know how to use a warrior to his max effectiveness.

If Igor's guild leader is really top 10 GvG, with your guidance maybe he can be #1. Amirite?

Mr Emu · Feb 23, 2009, 05:05 AM // 05:05

daesu, like everyone else is asking, why dont you just run sabway?

daze · Feb 23, 2009, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Emu

daesu, like everyone else is asking, why dont you just run sabway?

Exactly, for what you are using it for, [spiteful spirit][jagged bones][weapon of remedy] > gimped [discord]. Just leave the [discord] for people who use it to its fullest potential.
I mean jeezus if you are going to give all your heroes the same elite skill, you should at least try to take full advantage of it instead of using it for "support damage" as you stated.

Daesu · Feb 23, 2009, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

When a warrior is primarily using AP/YMLAD then 2 pips doesn't matter with the energy return from AP.

Actually the recommendation from Igor is only to take out EVAS. With just AP+YMLAD, you dont have enough damage to match my caster's combo of AP+YMLAD+EVAS+FH. This makes certain that your warrior-caster would kill alot slower than my caster.

Making a warrior into a gimped caster is a sure way to a poor performing build especially when compared against a good physical build. And even if you keep saying, but hey, your staff warrior can stay alive longer with 2 restore healers, so what? If you kill too slowly in a tough mob, you also run a higher risk of being overwhelmed.

Quote:

Its cute that you still think Master of damage can give an accurate representation of a builds effectiveness in live combat.

It doesn't surprise me that you always back out of an in-game challenge.

Then we can go on in circles again and get this thread closed too. You can continue to say yes and I will continue to say no and see who tires out in the end. Would that be your preference?

Quote:

And you dont understand that synergize is the wrong word to use. Using melee buffs effectively gimps your discord and makes it run at 70% effectiveness (to be generous) by taking time off of your massive spikes because time is wasted buffing melee and not spike spamming.

If my build is not as effective then how does it kill faster in the game? And dont just say it doesn't, because I would just reply that it does and we go for another few more rounds of this back and forth, since you wouldn't accept any of my in-game challenges.

Quote:

Warriors without shields dont have to sit on the mid or backline FYI. Have you ever heard of a scythe warrior??? I dont know many scythe warriors who use shields. Now granted you probably wont be doing much aggro holding but your position on the field will hold a lot less significance. but if you are just spamming [save yourselves][assassins promise][you move like a dwarf] then it really doesnt matter where you stand.

I think you are confused. Scythe warriors dont use AP+YMLAD and AP doesn't refresh SY. You need adrenaline for SY and AP is not going to give that to you.

Quote:

If Igor's guild leader is really top 10 GvG, with your guidance maybe he can be #1. Amirite?

My team is #1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Emu

daesu, like everyone else is asking, why dont you just run sabway?

Because these guys kept posting that discordway is better as it has a higher damage than sabway. If that is "really true", then who would be using sabway? Why wouldn't I want to use the "better" build too?

The problem is, it doesn't look like a better build to me.

daze · Feb 23, 2009, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Making a warrior into a gimped caster is a sure way to a poor performing build when compared against a good physical build. And even if you keep saying, but hey, your staff warrior can stay alive longer with 2 restore healers, so what? If you kill too slowly in a tough mob, you also run a higher risk of being overwhelmed.

Thats not what im recommending, Igor is. Im recommending that instead of gimping your discord by taking focus away from it, you should just run sabway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

It doesn't surprise me that you always back out of an in-game challenge.

It doesnt surprise me that you are purposely forgetting my challenge in real combat not Master of Damage. We can take our teams to the relm or Torment and see who kills faster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Then we can go on in circles again and get this thread closed too. You can continue to say yes and I will continue to say no and see who tires out in the end. Would that be your preference?

Why not both? Why do i have to choose?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

If my build is not as effective then how does it kill faster in the game? And dont just say it doesn't, because I would just reply that it does and we go for another few more rounds of this back and forth, since you wouldn't accept any of my in-game challenges.

But it doesnt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I think you are confused. Scythe warriors dont use AP+YMLAD and AP doesn't refresh SY. You need adrenaline for SY and AP is not going to give that to you.

I think you are confused, Nowhere did i say that scythe warriors use AP and nowhere did i say that AP recharges SY. You are yet again pulling accusations from your stinky place. Re-read the above post if it confuses you. I think you are purposely misreading my posts so you can argue about nonsense.

sigh, but just incast you are confused. let me repost

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daze

Warriors without shields dont have to sit on the mid or backline FYI. Have you ever heard of a scythe warrior??? I dont know many scythe warriors who use shields. Now granted you probably wont be doing much aggro holding but your position on the field will hold a lot less significance. FOR WARRIORS WITH A STAFF>> but if you are just spamming [save yourselves][assassins promise][you move like a dwarf] then it really doesnt matter where you stand. AND YES I KNOW THAT AP DOES NOT GIVE YOU 8 ADRENALIN

Its sad that i had to clarify that for you

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

My team is #1.

So this statement proves that you live in your own imagination. That is why arguing with you is so futile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Because these guys kept posting that discordway is better because it outputs a higher damage faster than sabway. If that is "really true", then who would use a more inferior build right?

Fixed that for you
well for instance, a wammo who refuses to go AP would use sabway.

Daesu · Feb 23, 2009, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Thats not what im recommending, Igor is.

Isn't Igor's pvx discordway build what I have been talking about for the last 100 or so posts?

Quote:

It doesnt surprise me that you are purposely forgetting my challenge in real combat not Master of Damage. We can take our teams to the relm or Torment and see who kills faster.

And I remembered that you backed out when I asked you to take Igor's pvx discordway? Didn't you say that his is a "very weak version of discordway"? Have you changed your mind now?

Quote:

Re-read the above post if it confuses you. I think you are purposely misreading my posts so you can argue about nonsense.

Go read your own post, you talked about scythe warriors in the same paragraph as AP+YMLAD+SY. Scythe warriors are W/D so they cant even bring AP in the first place so what were you talking about?

By the way, nice try on the quick edits, but this is your original statement:

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Warriors without shields dont have to sit on the mid or backline FYI. Have you ever heard of a scythe warrior??? I dont know many scythe warriors who use shields. Now granted you probably wont be doing much aggro holding but your position on the field will hold a lot less significance. but if you are just spamming [save yourselves][assassins promise][you move like a dwarf] then it really doesnt matter where you stand.

And even if the last statement is about staff warriors (which you did not mention orignally), you still have less damage than a caster without EVAS and FH. Which means, compared to all the other character classes, your warrior makes the least effective caster and you are still trying to fit him as one even knowing he only has 2 pips of energy regen and 20e base energy.

Quote:

well for instance, a wammo who refuses to go AP would use sabway.

So from that same statement, if I dont play wammo, I can use discordway?

You do know that not all warriors are wammos, dont you?

daze · Feb 23, 2009, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Isn't Igor's pvx discordway build what I have been talking about for the last 100 or so posts?

I know you were talking about it in the thread about Igor's PvX Discordway. However, this is not that same thread in case you havent noticed. This thread is a comparison between Sabway and Discordway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

And I remembered that you backed out when I asked you to take Igor's pvx discordway? Didn't you say that his is a "very weak version of discordway"? Have you changed your mind now?

Why would i take Igor's discordway when mine is soo much better?? You fail yet again to realize that im arguing the fact that a well built discordway kills a lot faster than a well built sabway. But a well built sabway is in fact more stable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Go read your own post, you talked about scythe warriors in the same paragraph as AP+YMLAD+SY. Scythe warriors are W/D so they cant even bring AP in the first place so what were you talking about?

This is hilarious. I can give multiple examples in one paragraph. And i love your bit of insight as to why a W/A/D cant use AP and a scythe. From hence forth Daseu will have the title "Legendary Master of the Obvious (1)" for his stunning explanation that AP doesnt give you 8 adrenalin. ANd for the pearl of wisdom that a warrior can not have 2 secondary professions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

By the way, nice try on the quick edits, but this is your original statement:

In case you didnt notice, i never edited the original post at the top. I just CLARIFIED the post so you wouldnt be so confused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

So from that same statement, if I dont play wammo, I can use discordway?

You do know that not all warriors are wammos, dont you?

"Legendary Master of the Obvious (1)" you can run whatever build you want to run and have whatever heroes you want, but that doesnt make them better than alternatives.

may i just refer to you as LMotO for short?

Daesu · Feb 23, 2009, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

I know you were talking about it in the thread about Igor's PvX Discordway. However, this is not that same thread in case you havent noticed. This thread is a comparison between Sabway and Discordway.

And in case you did not notice I was replying to Igor's build suggestions and not you. So by stepping in to our argument, you are indirectly supporting his build suggestions?

Quote:

Why would i take Igor's discordway when mine is soo much better??

Why would you then take my reply to Igor and take it personally that I was referring to your build?

Quote:

But a well built sabway is in fact more stable.

Of course, a well built discordway can be better than sabway. I told you that didn't I?

Quote:

This is hilarious. I can give multiple examples in one paragraph.

Then why did you infer that Scythe Warriors use AP from your original statement? If you dont know how to word your posts properly there are many writing courses that you can take.

daze · Feb 23, 2009, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

And in case you did not notice I was replying to Igor's build suggestions and not you. So by stepping in to our argument, you are indirectly supporting his build suggestions?

Im sorry i assumed you were on topic. so i was explaining why a warrior probably is better off with sabway. Which is a statement that neither agrees with you or Igor. Since he is saying that warriors should take a staff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Why would you then take my reply to Igor and take it personally that I was referring to your build?

LOL if i took anything "personally" that you posted, then i would have to rethink my life priorities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Of course, a well built discordway can be better than sabway. I told you that didn't I?

Im not sure what you said, but ive known that fact since before i joined GWGuru

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Then why did you infer that Scythe Warriors use AP from your original statement? If you dont know how to word your posts properly there are many writing courses that you can take.

I didn't infer, you assumed.

I wasn't condoning warriors use staves, i was stating that it didnt matter where you stand as a warrior on the field. Just because You dont carry a shield doesnt mean you cant be on the front line. You inferred that if a warrior carries a staff then he better not be on the front line.

And dont worry about my writing style, im sure that everyone else would be able to read it properly. I graduated college and i make great spare money writing advertisements for websites not to mention that i am constantly complimented on my writing style. The difference is sentence structure becomes less prominent when you are on a forum and you learn to just summarize.

Daesu · Feb 23, 2009, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Im sorry i assumed you were on topic. so i was explaining why a warrior probably is better off with sabway. Which is a statement that neither agrees with you or Igor. Since he is saying that warriors should take a staff.

We were on topic until Igor came in and posted that build of his. You probably notice by now that he likes to promote his pvx build as much as he can. That was when I had to say stop it, that build sucks.

Sorry, but if you see me arguing with Igor about discordway, it would most probably be around his build that suggests all character classes to play as a X/A caster. That's just wrong because not all character classes make good casters since every class is different.

Another problem is, many people still hold pvx builds as the standard build so since his build sucks for some classes, it is actually hurting the reputation of discord builds. Some people are starting to think that your character must hold that build template in order for discord to work.

To be fair to Igor, I think his build is not that bad for a caster (my own caster discordway version is similar only with minor changes) but generalizing it as an effective discordway for ALL the other character classes, including warriors, is ridiculous.

Quote:

LOL if i took anything "personally" that you posted, then i would have to rethink my life priorities.

I dont know, I was starting to think you two maybe related or something.

Well,...even if you were absolutely clear and I knew for sure that you were referring to a staff warrior, it still doesn't address the point that I mentioned before that warriors make the worst casters.

For his build to work well, the warrior probably needs a staff, and without a shield, he would probably not be holding the frontlines and therefore his high armor is wasted. You are only using the warrior at the abilities that he is weakest in, of all the character classes, as a caster. No matter how I see it, I dont see how this build is better than sabway for at least some of these non-caster classes. I bring up the warrior class because it is the most obvious example.

I bet if I take sabway as it is, change all the heroes elites to discord with some points to death magic, and use an effective melee warrior build to go along, it would still be stronger than his W/A caster. Especially if his AP gets removed by a hex removal, his W/A caster would be wanding for quite a while waiting for his 2 pips energy regen to catch up.

Lourens · Feb 23, 2009, 09:28 AM // 09:28

[Malaise][Parasitic Bond][Suffering][Meekness] and [enfeebling blood] are nice to put on your necros as requirement for [discord]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Exactly, for what you are using it for, [spiteful spirit][jagged bones][weapon of remedy] > gimped [discord]. Just leave the [discord] for people who use it to its fullest potential.
I mean jeezus if you are going to give all your heroes the same elite skill, you should at least try to take full advantage of it instead of using it for "support damage" as you stated.

Exactly Synergizing Heroes For The Win , Discord is Mediocre

daze · Feb 23, 2009, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Well in order to avoid people who take wiki as gospel from getting the wrong impression Igor Probably should have qualified his submission with something like this:
"If you play as a warrior profession and you want to run an AP caller build and you want to use discord, then you may want to bring a staff to help you have the energy needed to spam AP and YMLAD. However, discordway in its entirety is better suited for the casting persuasion."

i wonder if that quote would have prevented an eternal argument spanning multiple threads and closing multiple threads.

Daenara · Feb 23, 2009, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

"If you play as a warrior profession and you want to run an AP caller build and you want to use discord, then you may want to bring a staff to help you have the energy needed to spam AP and YMLAD. However, discordway in its entirety is better suited for the casting persuasion."

i wonder if that quote would have prevented an eternal argument spanning multiple threads and closing multiple threads.

I agree. I can't see this thread going anywhere further. I'm sure the OP has had his questions more than sufficiently answered.